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1. Robin Pedersen on March 16th
   

   I totally agree with you.

   I just want to point out: The empty areas in the user list is supposed to contain the default user icon (unless a custom icon is selected), I think the default is /usr/share/apps/kdm/faces/.default.user.icon

   I don't know why there seems to be no such icon present in any distribution.

   Reply
2. Diego on March 16th
   

   Yes, the blank space next to the name is for the user icon. If you set one in systemsettings "about me" you can see it also in KDM. A good idea would be to have a set of funny icons to randomly choose from, instead of leaving it to blank as default.

   Reply
3. David Vignoni on March 16th
   

   @Diego I've selected an icon but even so it didn't show up. But that's not the main problem, as @Robin Pedersen points out the default icon seems to not be present in most distributions.

   Definitely sounds like a minor bug but it looks very bad

   Reply
4. Thomas Fjellstrom on March 16th
   

   Given your first point, I'm not sure you "get" the whole thing.. I'm sure KDM is far from "done", but the reason your "name" is in there 3 times is because you decided to pick your name as your username. pick something else and it won't show up three times.

   what the list actually shows is the user's Real Name, and username. The username is what you have to use to login, hence it will get put in the username text box if a user entry is selected.

   On mine I get "Thomas Fjellstrom" and "moose" in the left hand list, and "moose" in the username field. Pretty obvious once you know whats going on.

   Reply
5. David Vignoni on March 16th
   

   @Thomas Fjellstrom: I actually did get the whole thing.
   It is normal to me to pick my name to be my username on my machine. And in your specific case you still get your username twice. The fact is that if I have a nice a list to choose the user I don't need username field.

   And yes I know KDM is not finished, that's why I'm trying to help it.

   Reply
6. Thomas Thym on March 16th
   

   Thanks for having a look at KDM. Like Thomas F. pointed out, the "names" don't bother me to (because I have another login name as well) but you are right with all your other arguments. I'm looking forward to any improvement into these directions.

   Reply
7. Alexis Menard on March 16th
   

   I agree with all your suggestions but one point is that you should be more friendly and have a bit of respect for people who works on KDM. The way of telling things is way too agressive. For me, i feel your blog post as :
   "But what's the hell is that, are KDM people stupid when they wrote KDM ?".

   Reply
8. Andrea Cavaliero on March 16th
   

   hello!
   I agree with the points made by david, i hope the developers can take his advice and improve kdm (which is already very good). I encountered another minor bug: there seems to be no graphical way to change the color of the mouse cursor in kdm. The changes to the cursor made from systemsettings only apply to the rest of kde, not to kdm and in the kdm systemsettings "page" there's no way to select a different cursor color

   Reply
9. David Vignoni on March 16th
   

   @Alexis I'm really not the guy who offend people. This post is not to be read like I'm yelling at our devs. These are just my considerations about KDM.

   Reply
10. Thomas Thym on March 16th
    

    Quick ideas:
    1. To switch to another user perhaps it's enough to mark the loged in users in the userlist (green point or green line around the picture, ...)
    2. On OK or LOGIN and CANCEL button would be nice. As well as reboot or shutdown. There is still enough space on the login screen so not everything has to be hidden in a pull down (or even new) menu, without cluttering the screen too much.

    P.S.: I like the username field to log in as root quickly (I know, as kubuntu user you don't need that). But I can also live without one.

    Reply
11. David Vignoni on March 16th
    

    @Thomas Thym: Thanks for input Thomas. I think all the features should stay for who need them, they just need to be better designed. One of the key points of KDE is it's customization. So, I can see a very basic login setup for default but with the possibility to easily enable any needed feature from systemsettings. There's could also be a profile setting to choose: basic, administrator, remote etc.

    Possibilities are endless.

    Reply
12. Alexander Neundorf on March 16th
    

    "Restart X Server: I would like a different, less techy label,"

    I don't agree with this one. Naming it something different just hides what is actually being done, "Soft restart" would say completely nothing to me.
    I think the wording as it is ok here, because usually you don't need this option. In the rare case that you need it, you probably know that you want to restart the X server, so it is good that it says just that.

    "Console Login: this option really makes me mad."
    I think it's nice that this option is there. I agree that adding some hints how to come back or maybe moving to an "Advanced" submenu (maybe together with the "Remote login") might make sense.

    Alex

    Reply
13. patpi on March 16th
    

    Great post, I love how a little usability fixes make a difference. I'm looking forward to those bug fixes

    Reply
14. Rasi on March 16th
    

    Well... the user thing has been mentioned often enough by now, but there are a few other things i'd like to comment about.

    a) the console login - sorry, but saying it shouldnt be present at all in kdm? See how users demands can be different - i would hate it if this option disappears. You might have a point with the confirmation dialog tho.

    b) XDMCP - PPL that don't know what XDMCP is wont use it, end of story. Those who know will know what to do. I dont see any reason why KDM should give it some fancy name, because thats just how it is called and GDM names it the same. You are right about the visual representation tho - it's plain ugly

    Personally i always liked GDM more, because it is damn flexible theme wise. KDM themes always look about the same.
    So in general i agree, KDM - as it is the first thing the user sees - should look and feel much more like something that makes the user want to see more.

    Reply
15. Cyrille Berger on March 16th
    

    "The username input field is redundant since there's only one user. In the case there were more users it would still be redundant because the user can be selected from the list on the left."

    Keep in mind, that in a lot of entreprise/university/large oganisation setup, anyone can connect to any computer, which might makes the list huge (and you don't want to show the list), in such setup the input field for the login is very useful. And usually, if visible, the list would contains only the last people who have used the computer, so that can quickly access the computer, and other people are expected to enter their login.

    Reply
16. Wolfgang Mader on March 16th
    

    A few weeks ago I also thought on how to improve kdm and its integration into kde in general. The ideas are a bit different of what the topic is, but anyway. Now following, an idea to improve/alter the log in process.

    Use case 1)
    Edgar has a notebook which he uses at home as well as at university. Last night he was playing "world of goo" for quite some time. Because he didn't want to miss the great music which comes along with goo, he had the sound turned on. He also likes the start jingle of kde and therefor he has switched system sounds on. Normally, before he takes the notebook to university, he disables the sound using kmix to not annoy all the other students. But since it was late last night he has just forgotten to do so. Staring on kdm while sitting in a lesson he now thinks: "How wonderful would it be to be able to mute my kde from kdm."

    This leads to a switch at the log in screen which triggers the mute setting of e.g. kmix.

    But there is more to come because it is somewhat arbitrary to only set the
    sound. Why not set the widgets on your desktop or the wallpaper. Lets have a
    look at the widgets.

    Use case 2)
    Anna has to do a presentation at work. Normally, just for motivation, she has
    configured a few 'Picture Frame' widgets showing to her the pictures taken at the last holiday in random order. Some of them are not to be seen by the whole work group. But, as we all know, the projector has to be connected to the machine before X comes up, and therefor, everyone can see her desktop before she fires up the great 'Okular' to do her presentation.
    But what if she had configured not only one widget set, but lets say one for
    work, another one for presentation, and a third one for using the machine at home. This can easily done using the 'Activity' feature of kde. But staring at
    kdm, just as Edgar did before, she now thinks: "How wonderful would it be to be able to choose the appropriate 'Activity' at the log in."

    This leads to present all activities of a user at log in time, and also to a
    security problem. Because not everyone who has physical access to the machine should be able to see all activities configured for a user, this joice should be made after the password has been confirmed. This in turn consumes one more user interaction for the log in, which is not desired.

    A way to combine use case 1 and 2 would be to allow the user to configure (log in) profiles which can be selected from within kdm. I think, such profiles are not easy to integrate well into kde, because they interfere with the concept of 'Activities'. Anyways, perhaps some of this ideas are useful for redefining the kdm user experience and its integration into kde.

    Reply
17. David Vignoni on March 16th
    

    @Alexander Neundorf: I partially agree with you about X server restart. It is probably better to call things to their names. In this specific case I'd like some sort of tooltip that explain what's the X server.

    About the console login I think this one can be redesigned to be something really cool, together with remote login. Imagine if you had 3 tabs, the first one is Local login, the second remote login and third is console login.

    Even so, I think that a basic profile should only show the local login. The other 2 would be for advanced users and admins or could be activated from kdm itself.

    Reply
18. David Vignoni on March 16th
    

    @Rasi: sorry Rasi, we definitely have opposed ideas I respect your positions I just don't think it's the direction we should follow.

    @Cyrille Berger: I'm aware of that. If we design this properly we can have KDM to adapt to any situation.

    @Wolfgang Mader: that's awesome. I also created a persona profile to do my initial research, I'll share it later on this blog. Thank you very much, those are going to be helpful.

    Reply
19. Pinheiro on March 16th
    

    Great work dude, and very good timming as kde was planing to redesign the code in KDM.

    Reply
20. Andrij Zinchenko on March 16th
    

    David, I think this article does make a lot of sense. Though, I have a couple of opinions that I would gladly share here.

    1. As for "Switch User" option - I think one needs to know what is the username into which he or she wants to switch. Why? - Security. So, I would place an input field there.
    Thinking systhematically KDM's possibilities, including the list of existing users, must be regulated by some kind of security framework.

    2. I am in strong opposition to remove XDMCP option. I have my primary working machine - a notebook with ArchLinux and a second one - home/multimedia server with Kubuntu. So, instead of having 2 monitors near me I just log in remotedly to that Kubuntu box. It is really veeeeery convenient.
    At the same time I agree that XDMCP thing lacks proper design and explanations, especially when it comes to new users.

    Reply
21. Peppe Caizzone on March 16th
    

    If you remove a feature, you should give a better way to do what previously was done using that feature.
    The "console login" is required in the login screen, because it's the only way for a user to access the linux console without using awkward key combinations (which sure are less user-friendly than a menu entry).
    The console is very useful for advanced users, especially when something goes wrong. Moreover, if a non-technical user mistakenly activates it, he will be taken back to the graphical login screen if he does not log in within 30 seconds or so. A simple text message instructing the user of this functionality would solve the "panicking curious user" case.

    Reply
22. Dog on March 16th
    

    @Peppe Caizzone , how many times did you use console login the way you described here? Because I suspect that it is just `theoretical` explanation and not really used by and end user (even pro users).

    Reply
23. Dave T on March 16th
    

    My first criticism is that it just doesn't look that good (compared to the rest of KDE), on my desktop I have a high res and a big screen and there it looks pretty good but on my small screen laptop with low res everything is huge and like the top picture the elements appear to be layed out at random.

    I really don't understand why there needs to be an option to log in to the previous session when you could just have a radio button preselected. The current way just doesn't give away what the previous session was.

    Is it just me or are the extra dialogues KDE3 style still?

    Things like ':0 VT7' should be avoided for the non geek users, it won't mean a whole lot to them.

    Reply
24. Quique on March 16th
    

    While I reckon most of the issues you found are problems that should be fixed, some of the proposed solutions are not that good.

    For instance, I strongly disagree with removing the graphical shortcut to the console. However, moving it to a new tab and providing some user information and instructions about how to get back to KDM would be an excellent improvement.

    Reply
25. Diederik van der Boor on March 16th
    

    Good to see some attention being drawn to KDM. I agree with most of your observations, except a few:

    - restart X server: "restart graphical environemnt" is OK to me, as both users/techies can understand that. "Soft restart" fails in that regard.
    - XDMCP hosts: the "XDMCP" could be removed here imho. Perhaps a list of "remote systems"? Why not add VNC, RPC and NX hosts there? In some menu or help page it could explain what protocols are supported for remote logins.

    Reply
26. maninalift on March 16th
    

    Very pleased to see someone thinking abou8t this stuff. There are some good replies here too. Lots of useful input.

    Don't remove useful "techie" features but instead think about how to make them less confusing for other users:

    (1) yes, a tooltip for restart X-server would be much better than giving it an unclear name.

    (2) I frequently go from KDM to console and back. This option belongs here. But again more information could be useful. If there is a confirmation dialogue, I'd like to see a "don't show me this again" button/checkbox. Maybe just place this under an "administrator" menu.

    (3) I donn't use XDMP but I'm sure those that do feel the same way about it I do about console login.

    (4) The good thing about having menu items stay in place even when they are pointless (e.g. switch user) is that the user can learn where they are, it can be confusing when things appear and disappear. That is not to say that that is the only way to do things, but it is worth taking into consideration.

    Also... making "techie" stuff more difficult makes it even harder for non-techioe users to achieve those things. e.g. if they are told they need to log in to the console to install a graphics driver, or that they should restart X for such and such a reason.

    @Quique "For instance, I strongly disagree with removing the graphical shortcut to the console. However, moving it to a new tab and providing some user information and instructions about how to get back to KDM would be an excellent improvement."

    @Wolfgang Mader

    Great stuff: Silent startup, that is something that should have been invented years ago. I've often found myself looking for a pair of headphones just do I won't annoy/wake up people up when I turn on my laptop.

    Reply
27. Vladimir Berezhnoy on March 16th
    

    David forgot to mention that default kdm is mostly unusable without mouse, i.e. menu is insacessible and it is even impossible to reboot computer. I cannot see any user friendlieness with this. I'm still stuck with kdm-3.5. The new kdm is ugly and really sucks.

    Reply
28. Thore on March 16th
    

    Just a small thing I noticed yesterday, when you type the wrong password in the Login dialog it resizes to make room for the comment "Wrong username or password". This behaviour gives a very nervous feeling. I think it would be better to have a slightly lager dialog with room for text to show up.

    Reply
29. felipe on March 16th
    

    Great review David!

    My idea: KDM should be the first to take advantage of Plasma and be just a Plasma container.

    Makes perfect sense to me: easy to design, implement and customize

    Reply
30. Franco on March 16th
    

    100% agree with you, hope some really good looking and usable kdm comes out following the points mentioned here.

    Good post, cheers.

    Reply
31. David Vignoni su KDM [+ la mia opinione] « pollycoke :) on March 16th
    

    [...] dico solo che sono contento quando è al lavoro su qualche aspetto di KDE! Stavolta tocca a KDM, il login [...]

32. Vide on March 16th
    

    Ok, same old story here. Someone steps in saying "there's a problem" and people start complaining "I use this feature XYZ in one corner case once in a lifetime, don't cut it off or I will kill you".
    Sorry, console login SHOULD NOT BE PRESENT at all in a graphical login. If there are such problems you should enter an akward text console
    1) the problems should be fixed at its root
    2) someone will tell you (your "helpdesk") to press ctrl+alt+f1 which is as easy as saying "look for an item called "console login"

    This is just an example to demonstrate that David has got only valid points talking about KDM.
    KDM is still utterly broken and need some love. just not to talk about the KCM conf with its dialog(1), dialog(2) etc tabs...

    Reply
33. Purple-Bobby on March 16th
    

    I agree it is messy, a new user should not need to ask HOW, I think bare-bones log-in with gradual reveal if necessary. The intelligence should be working behind the scenes, making it appear this is really simple, without being showoff smart.

    Could you not just click on you name button and a password field is revealed (if necessary). All you are doing is identifying yourself, and proving it with a password.

    As much as I hate tree-views, if, and only if the user has more than one profile (Home, Work, Mobile...), then a plus/triangle/tree-expand button appears to allow then to select an alternative profile. Or perhaps the profile is selected before the user, but I'm not sure how this logical to the user - my mobile phone has profiles, but I do not know how to select them - I can change the ringer to silent or vibrate with a couple of button presses of the volume up/down buttons (how logical?). Depending on the size of the screen, you probably only want tree-view when the number of user-profile buttons exceeds a certain number.

    Do we need both a power-off and restart buttons, surely a non-technical user only requires power-off, but most computers have a special button for this, so a button on the log-in panel/screen is unnecessary.
    Remote log-in, could the machine name be a button to select a host, may be that is not obvious. May be the user would just have another profile.

    User picture/icon - why not a sound as well.
    A finger-print reader or smart-card reader could select the user, then they enter their password.

    Console log-in is probably only for the root user, and this can be reached via Ctrl+Alt+F1 or some-such key combination.

    The log-in panel/screen would be configurable by the administrator, so widgets could be added for power-off, find a remote host, dial-up/hang-up, clock, etc.

    Surely, every computer has a root/Administrator log-in, there does not seem any point in hiding it.

    Reply
34. Purple-Bobby on March 16th
    

    Could you just say your name (and profile) to your computer, and it log you in?

    Reply
35. Filip Brcic on March 16th
    

    I would remove "Restart X Server" button completely. I don't think anyone who doesn't know enough about X Server will ever have a need to restart it. And, those who do know a bit about it would probably know how to type ctrl+alt+backspace, don't you think?

    The other button I would remove is "Console login". Whoever needs console login will know how to type ctrl+alt+f1 or something and probably wouldn't need the console login button.

    As for user selection, I don't really think that user selection and username input box are both needed. As you said, if I wanted to login as root, I should be able to activate the input box in some way (for example below the users there could be a field named "advanced" or "other users" that would activate the input box).

    As for the sessions, I don't think you are right. Maybe Kubuntu is wrong for installing only KDE? In my distro there is blackbox installed by default so that it can be used as failsafe. Maybe kubuntu could do something like that. It is not like blackbox (or fluxbox or ...) takes a lot of space.

    And, about user icons. The kdm default is that user icons are installed by admin. I think the default should be that the icons are defined by users.

    Reply
36. » David Vignoni su KDM [+ la mia opinione] on March 16th
    

    [...] dico solo che sono contento quando è al lavoro su qualche aspetto di KDE! Stavolta tocca a KDM, il login [...]

37. Cumulus007 on March 16th
    

    You are absolutely right! A couple of days ago, I was intending to place a feature request about this on the KDE Bug tracker, but I forgotten to do this.

    KDE really needs amore simple, easier to use interface. It also needs some desktop effects. It would be great if KWin can be pre-loaded at the login screen, so we can have desktop effects there.

    Reply
38. Rodrigo Rosenfeld Rosas on March 16th
    

    I think the console menu option should fire a dialog asking for authentication and then launch a konsole in top of KDM. From there I could Ctrl+Shift+N and open several virtual consoles, oposed to Ctrl+Shift+Fx which is too limited. There are also some buggy graphical drivers that can freeze while switching from Graphical to console or vice-versa.

    Visually, there could also exist the possibility of having animated themes in KDM. Maybe it should be default in most distributions when the computer is a desktop or when laptop is powered. I mean, there could be some snow effects while users don't log in.

    I feel the login manager is very static, where it shouldn't be. Same for desktop background. Some might want to have an animated desktop background, but I don't think it is an option today. I'm still trying to get my panel background to be transparent just like I was used to in KDE 3 series.

    Considering the layout of KDM, I think the menu could be replaced by tabs. One tab for login, another for additional configuration. Another for expert users, etc.

    These are just some suggestions for improvement. Actually I don't use KDM, but automatic login instead, since I am the only user of my desktop PC.

    Reply
39. SDiZ on March 16th
    

    The "Console Login" button should stay.

    Some of you mentioned "ALT-CTRL-F1", but this key combination can be disabled. And this is not that uncommon to have this disabled. The admin/root have to get someway to login from console.

    Reply
40. Dave T on March 16th
    

    "those who do know a bit about it would probably know how to type ctrl+alt+backspace, don't you think?"

    Ubuntu have seen fit to block the functionality from there next release, they say that nobody should have to use it (it isn't in OSX or Windows) and it is too easily activated by mistake (three keys at once makes me doubt that). I think this is a bad decision until they make the desktops bulletproof stable.

    Reply
41. Benny M on March 16th
    

    Another annoying thing: if you mistype your password, the login screen blinks then comes back a bit larger and in a bit different possition.
    Somehow I find this visually very annoying. The label for messages should already be defined on the screen even if no errors are to be mentioned yet. Try it!

    I also did not succeed in putting a login icon for my daughters. Annoying bug that one.

    Reply
42. litb on March 16th
    

    First thanks for your time to review the stuff

    "I would like a different, less techy label, something like "Restart graphical environment" or even more nebulous like: "Soft restart". In any case, this should be grouped together with the other shutdown/restart options."

    I don't agree. Please don't rename it! "Soft restart!" tells me nothing about what it does. does it restart the graphical manager? does it restart my whole PC? Or does it restart the X server?

    "My name appears 3 times in the same login dialog"

    That is just because you put your name often enough into several fields. Into your real name, and then into your user name. And then as username into your last login. It's not KDM's fault.

    "To access root or hidden users I would rather prefer to have a button that activates the username field in case it's needed."

    Please do not! A user login textbox is the most basic thing you would expect from a login manager. Having just the Listbox with usernames you are confused like hell.

    "this is useless because there's only one registered user.This option would make sense only if there were two or more users and one is already logged in. Even so it would probably be better to just click on another user icon/name and type the password to switch."

    I don't agree. That will login you on a second time, but won't switch to an already created session. It will again just be confusing as to what will happen. Will it ask you to switch, or will it login a second time?

    My 2 cents

    Reply
43. Stu on March 16th
    

    David, I agree with most of what you said, well pretty much all of it really.

    One more observation - the other use of your name at the top of the dialog ('david-desktop') is of course your hostname. I've never understood why the login screen needs to show the hostname, it's not as if you can do anything with it until after you log in. And if it's merely to let you know which Pc you're using - well, most people can recognise their different machines and even if you have a load the same then booting one up to see if it's the right one is still going to suck - so why not get rid of the hostname from the login screen?

    Reply
44. David on March 16th
    

    Instead of explaining to normal users what "X Server" is, why not to explain techies what "Soft restart" means (with a tooltip or something)?
    e.g.
    "Restarts only the graphical environment.
    ----------------------
    In Linux systems the graphical environment (X Server) is not tied to the core, so it can be restarted independently.
    This is useful because ...."

    Reply
45. maninalift on March 16th
    

    @Rodrigo Rosenfeld Rosas
    @Filip Brcic
    @other folks

    You are suggesting methods of logging in to the colsole which invole running X. If the user was happy to be running X then they may as well use Konsole from inside KDE.

    Reply
46. Alexander Neundorf on March 16th
    

    IIRC both the ctrl+alt+backspace as well as the ctrl+alt+Fx shortcuts can be disabled via xorg.conf.
    If that's the case, and that functionality wouldn't be there in kdm, then there is no obvious way left to do this. I really think it must stay there. It can very well go to some "advanced" area.

    "Instead of explaining to normal users what "X Server" is, why not to explain techies what "Soft restart" means ?"

    Because this voids existing knowledge.
    I (as computer guy) had to set up WLAN for some guys under Windows. They had different WLAN set up tools. Some of them called things by their name "WEP", "WPA2", etc., some used "friendly" descriptions, as "Setup for a home computer", "Setup for a small business". These friendly descriptions didn't tell me anything, I had to guess. Different applications/devices can chose to use different friendly descriptions. The advantage of the "techy" description is that it says what the thing is about. The WLAN router knows its "WEP", the computer knows its "WEP", the computer guy knows its "WEP". If the WLAN router would say "Use medium-security encryption" (instead of WEP) and the set up tool would say "Use encryption for a home computer" (instead of WEP) the non-techy user wouldn't know whether both mean the same thing, and also the expert user would have no chance to know whether they mean the same thing. If both would just say "WEP", they would be using the same "official" language, and at least the expert user would know what it's about. Otherwise both the expert and the non-techy user are left guessing and assuming.

    Alex

    Reply
47. morricone on March 16th
    

    regarding 4.

    Please leave it as it is! Maybe add a confirmation dialog. But I need this functionality. It's the only way I can stop the xserver in a sane way.

    Reply
48. morricone on March 16th
    

    I wouldn't use kdm if it didn't have that option!

    Reply
49. The Old Man on March 16th
    

    So say we all !

    Reply
50. TheFuzzball on March 16th
    

    I hate to say this but OS X is the only OS that does this really well, why not take pointers from them?
    Smooth transitions, simplicity, etc, etc.

    Reply
51. Robert Kaiser on March 16th
    

    Both the "Restart X Server" and "Console Login" options are IMHO good to have in principal, but they should be in a somewhat obscure place (well, the current manu is obsucre, but things that shouldn't be obscure are mixed with those for advanced people) and Maybe both should be renamed - to "Restart Graphical Environment" and "Shut Down Graphical Environment" (I've used the console option every now and then as it's actually quitting KDM - unless that has been changed or is different on Kubuntu than in openSUSE).

    Reply
52. Vide on March 16th
    

    @Alexander
    "IIRC both the ctrl+alt+backspace as well as the ctrl+alt+Fx shortcuts can be disabled via xorg.conf. "

    If someone has disabled it, there should be a good reason (managed environment, or X server is perfect no nned to restart it as Ubuntu folks seem to want in the next release). So? Why you should be able to restart it from KDM anyway? If you really want that option, simple enable again the key combination.

    I mean: what's the purpose of "restart X"?

    Reply
53. Francois on March 16th
    

    I don't think any of the feature should disappear because they seem reasonable to me BUT the layout should change. An "advanced" tab/button looks like a good idea.

    And please absolutely no technical terms on the screen in the immediately reachable buttons. It scares the hell of out of normal users (*not* you I know that but take others into consideration please).

    For instance, the current drop down list contains "X-server", and that means "stop reading" for all average users, thus they will miss important functions.

    Reply
54. David Vignoni e KDM | Paolo Lucciola on March 16th
    

    [...] scritto un articolo sull’argomento in cui spulcia tutte le incongruenze del programma. E ha lanciato una raccolta [...]

55. Dread Knight on March 16th
    

    Very nice article Good job!

    Now hopefully someone will make a mockup and some code commits to follow shortly

    Reply
56. Rex Lunae on March 16th
    

    I agree with a lot of what you've said.

    I've always wondered why KDM puts the login controls inside a tiny little box. It looks so crowded. I think they should loose the box, and make better use of the space available. If this is done, they should be able to make the user list less obnoxious.

    Reply
57. Giorgio Allocco on March 16th
    

    I suggest that options like suspend and hibernate should be present next to shutdown and restart.
    There is no way to suspend the pc without first log in into kde (very bad).

    Reply
58. James on March 16th
    

    I agree whole heartedly with your post... and that even neglects to mention the Control Center KCM that is like a poster child for what you don't want a KCM to look like.

    Why are the tabs numbered? Checking a box disables half of the tabs? What does all of this mean, and why is it organized this way?

    I'm used to it, but that's because I think it traces it's heritage back the better part of the way to KDE 2 with little in the way of an overhaul.

    Reply
59. Sergio Pistone on March 16th
    

    "Console login" button should stay in some form as none of the proposed alternatives (Ctrl+Ald+F* or showing a xterm window) are proper replacements for it. As it is now, the button brings down the X Server allowing the user to perform task that need that (I think reinstalling the NVIDIA drivers requires that for example). While this can be done in other ways, these are generally distro specific and not so easy to find. I do agree though that adding some information on how to get the graphical enviroment back would be a nice addition (btw, is "killall kdm; kdm" a distro agnostic way to accomplish this?).

    Reply
60. Rasi on March 16th
    

    @Sergio Pistone: no, its not... the init mode should respawn itself. the only way to have this proper is to detect how kdm has been started (daemon or init) and then sent the proper command.

    Reply
61. thothonegan on March 16th
    

    The failsafe environment is setup to run xterm just on X, great for fixing problems with KDE (or any other DE). Unfortunately, kubuntu doesnt have xterm by default, and didnt remove the session file.

    Reply
62. Leo on March 16th
    

    Why not just make it a plasma activity? Complete with a cashew at the upper right hand corner. The activity is locked by default at every start up, and you need your root password to unlock. Then there is a set of kdm widgets that can be moved all around, put in panels, etc. That would make it very easy to theme and customize, right?

    Reply
63. Michael Pyne on March 16th
    

    Wow, lots of comments.

    The only thing I'd like to add is having a input field for the username is actually very nice. I share this system with my wife and having it as an input field allows me to be able to type in my username without having to use the mouse to click on it, which is especially an issue given that I have to type in my password anyways.

    Reply
64. david on March 16th
    

    "If you find a feature, it might confuse the user,so gnomeify "remove it"

    Reply
65. els78 on March 16th
    

    @david: should KDM become some plasma love?? So there can be some nice "shutdown or reboot" plasmoid, i think this window is very ugly... or an schutdown, reboot button with extender or tooltips?? there is so many space on KDM !!

    Reply
66. pansz on March 16th
    

    > I like my name but maybe that's too much.

    The lest side is redundant when your full name is the same as your login name. But the login name is ascii-only and the full name can be in a different language with complex characters, it may be necessary to show both.

    > There's no login button.

    If there should be a button it should always be there, since the user may have no password in passwordless login sessions.

    > In the case there were more users it would still be redundant because the user can be selected from the list on the left.

    If you have 20+ users in the list you will miss the input box, since keyboard input is much faster than trying to select from a long list.

    > To access root or hidden users I would rather prefer to have a button that activates the username field in case it's needed.

    No need, root or hidden users should not have a graphical login.

    > Switch User: This option would make sense only if there were two or more users...

    WinXP allows only on session for each user, Linux allows unlimited sessions for unlimited users. so when you have a single user and multiple sessions you need that menu. When you have multiple sessions you cannot reuse the user selection dialog.

    > Restart X Server: I would like a different, less techy label.

    It is important to know the concept of X server for a Linux user, just as you should know what is a global menu for a Mac user.

    > Remote Login: I'm not totally sure why this option is present.

    XDMCP login is standard on all Linux machines. If you have a remote account and no local account you still can use the local X server (use local computer without any access of local hard disk)

    > KDM would show available sessions only if there is more than one DE installed.

    The session menu should give you choice to enter an empty session or the last saved session, so it should always be there even if you have only KDE.

    Reply
67. Mark on March 16th
    

    The only change I really really care about and want to see is to make kdm able to use challenge response authentication like PAM allows. and to do that kdm needs to split the username and password screens into two steps like gdm does.

    Reply
68. Benjamin on March 17th
    

    I would like to see support for all types of remote login: VNC, SSH+X forwarding, NX etc.

    Reply
69. Purple-Bobby on March 17th
    

    All that extra stuff that most people do not use, but a few think it is essential - should be enabled, if required, in the configuration panel.

    The Linux ethos, is suppose to install/enable only what you use - it lessens the risk that something go wrong, it lessens the system's exposure to bugs that might allow a security breach.

    Reply
70. Purple-Bobby on March 17th
    

    @Purple-Bobby: s/supposed/supposed to be/

    Reply
71. Purple-Bobby on March 17th
    

    The list of users (or user-profiles) could have search as you type, but also the list could be sorted by recently used.

    Event at companies of 10,000+ employees, each PC has only a handful actually use a particular computer. On the servers, the users are in groups of typically 10 to 100

    Reply
72. Vide on March 17th
    

    @Giorgio Allocco : WTF? Please? Are you serious? You must be kidding because it's impossible someone is suggesting that the login manager should give CLI commands hints to end-users. This is JUST PLAIN AND TOTALLY WRONG.

    Reply
73. Fri13 on March 17th
    

    I have just two things to say.

    1. Security
    2. Usability

    As by security point of view, the username should not be visible on the graphical login. You can easily find out the user names in the computer and then try to quess it's password with "su username".

    The grahphical should only have the usern full name showed there. Do you need anything else to reconize yourself with your face/avatar on it?

    You should get the password box bottom of the username when clicked. Not to side of it.

    If the list is first like this:

    Firstname1 Surname1
    Firstname2 Surname2
    Firstname3 Surname3
    Firstname4 Surname4

    And then when you click, example the Firstname2, you get this

    Firstname1 Surname1
    |-------------------|
    |Firstname2 Surname2|
    |[ Password Box ]|
    |-------------------|
    Firstname3 Surname3
    Firstname4 Surname4

    The line around Firstname2 is as colorbox what shows the selection area.
    Only the root should get to know the username, and it can be found easily. And user itself can find the username too, at least it should not be forgotten never.

    Reply
74. Purple-Bobby on March 17th
    

    My remote login options seems to do nothing useful and there are no indications on how to use it:
    if I put a hostname in the host box and press add, it just blanks it out, if I press Accept or Refresh nothing happens.
    Eventually, it gets bored and sends me back to my locked session.

    Reply
75. Bob on March 17th
    

    As by security point of view, the username should not be visible on the graphical login. You can easily find out the user names in the computer and then try to quess it's password with "su username".

    On a single user system that is a pointless amount of security. Paranoia can be a good thing when it comes to security, here it just makes the majority of users suffer with no actual benefit.

    Granted for networked installations with multiple users what you are saying makes sense, but I'd wager the majority of KDE installations are single user systems, so perhaps a configuration option that provides this for the minority?

    The grahphical should only have the usern full name showed there. Do you need anything else to reconize yourself with your face/avatar on it?

    What if you have two user accounts under the same name, one for normal web usage one for development. Both would appear under the same name. But in your system only one would be chosen at the graphic prompt.

    KDM doesn't need to look pretty, it doesn't need to be re-engineered, it just needs to provide a way to log on to a graphic environment. It accomplishes that quite nicely so please don't over-engineer it for the sake of over-engineering it.

    Reply
76. Cosa sta accadendo nel mondo Linux… « Il blog di LucAndrea on March 17th
    

    [...] Vignoni, per gli amici «Icon king», ha scritto sul suo blog un interessante articolo riguardo l’unica parte di KDE 4 che sembra essere uscita dalla preistoria: il login manager, [...]

77. Tom Chance on March 18th
    

    Completely agree, glad you're pushing for a change!

    On the login button, it could also remain greyed out (or similar) until the password is correct for a simple visual feedback.

    As for the comments suggesting that people need to be familiar with concepts such as the CLI and X server; and that the default login dialogue should be designed for systems with 20+ users who use remote logins and multiple sessions: hold your ground, David!

    1. They're a tiny minority of computer users, and even I'd imagine a minority of KDE users (if not a minority of people who read Planet KDE);

    2. I'm glad that KDE + Linux + etc. are reaching the point where users don't need to know these things, and every time my girlfriend gets confronted with confusing technical language and unecessary options it reminds me of the bad old days when you had to manually mount USB drives etc.

    3. There's no reason why an elegant, simple interface can't expand for those corner cases, e.g. when there are more than 20 users on the system or it's set-up to login to a remote server, show the username field. Maybe this isn't the most elegant solution, but the general idea is that 98% of users shouldn't be confronted with a mess just because 2% want it. Windows has different editions that give different login screens; there's no reason why we can't apply a simple heuristic to adapt the login screen to context.

    Reply
78. Vide on March 18th
    

    @Tom Chance: I agree with you.. just a sidenote. Windows DOESN'T have any particular version with different logins. It just happens that if you join a domain with 2000/XP, it automatically change the login screen to show only a login field, no icons. With Vista situation has changed (for the better) and it's more consistent. OSX is the way to follow IMO and it shows only local users as icons and a "other..." icon and when you click it the login screen changes to an input field.
    Iterations on this design could solve brilliantly the many users corner case

    Reply
79. Purple-Bobby on March 18th
    

    If you make the users feel stupid or scared, because they do not known what some technical jargon means or they are spoken to as if they are children, their enjoyment will be less.
    If their enjoyment is less, they will use the system less.

    All your good design work will probably be not noticed, but by subtle subconscious absorption the system will seem easier and more enjoyable to use.

    The user wants to get their task done (read email, find address, find train times), this stuff (choosing how you log-in) just gets in their way.

    You have to be careful what artifacts you pick from other operation-systems/window-managers, what seems technically clever and attractive to a technical person, is lively too much for most users. The opposing argument, is to give the users the familiar (from other OS's), but this requires little design skill.

    You might have to do some usability tests, but couldn't the lock session be the same as log-out/leave. That is when you log-out or lock your desktop, it appears to stay the same - like a real desk, were you lock the office door.
    So the log-in panel would be like a session unlock panel, but with the option to start a different session (for user/profile), by (finding, if necessary, and) picking it from a list. The "Other..." button would be in the list to cover the exceptional cases. The list could be sorted by recently accessed, so the users and profiles (and "Other...") would bubble to the top of the list for easy clicking. The panel could be 'decorated' with widgets (chosen by the system administrator) to tell you the time, date, host-name, etc.; buttons for power, restart, guest web-access, and so on.

    Reply
80. Purple-Bobby on March 18th
    

    Rather crude mock up here http://purple-bobby.co.uk/ui-design/unlock.html

    Reply
81. Giorgio Allocco on March 18th
    

    @ Vide : I just would like a shutdown menu with turn off, restart, suspend and hibernate4, is this so wrong?

    Reply
82. Mohammad on March 18th
    

    This is great! These are the thing that should be looked at too and finally I see things happening ...

    These type of "finishing" or "UIser Exp pilishing" as I would like to call them I have seen missing in KDE (yes 3, 4 etc) and in overall FOSS products.

    While I do believe in technical excellence of products like Linux, KDE (Gnome is lot ahead in this particular aspect), I am still a avid fan of M$ just for their effor in designing the user experience.

    Once FOSS / community products put effort in this aspect too, I will have a desktop complete of FOS stack that is not only technically superior, it will be a pleasure to use it too. Right now all I have is good technology at the cost of user experience.

    Reply
83. Davide Bettio (WindowsUninstall) on March 19th
    

    Your usability report is great
    We are looking forward to the next usability report

    Reply
84. David Vignoni on March 19th
    

    thanks everyone for writing your opinion and suggestions.

    In general I'd say KDM should be customizable and come with a couple of configuration profiles that distros can choose for default.

    I can see how all the features like remote access and console access can be useful, so they should be redesigned as well but perhaps not included as default for a "desktop" profile configuration but instead being included on a "advanced" profile configuration or being activate by the user.

    For profiles like "desktop" that would have a nicely styled list, KDM should be able to adapt the layout for any user case:

    • single user
    • 2-5 users
    • a lot of users

    In general KDM should be "smart" and present options and actions only when necessary (i.e. switch user).

    Next step for me is to create some very different "personas" and flowcharts to find out how to handle any situation.

    I'll hopefully be showing something by beginning of next week.

    Stay tuned.

    Reply
85. I Love on March 19th
    

    Yet another reason why KDE4 was so bad. I can't wait for it to go down in flames. I just want to say in advanced: I told you so!

    This blog did nothing but focus on how things look. Is that all your cult of kde can think of? Cause we Lowly people actually care about what a DE can do. Not just it's how nice it looks. Why don't you all just go make gnome look better and we will all have the best of both worlds. A somewhat more usable DE that looks kinda nice, or at least tries to look nice, since all you've actually done is reimplemented Windows 7 themes.

    For those of you that think it's the LM, it's not, it's the whole DE. It's filled with inconsistencies.
    Just grab a folder view and rotate it 20 degrees, see what happens.

    Reply
86. Gabriele Santanché on April 20th
    

    You can reconfigure kdm, as you like ! ... RTFM

    Reply
87. Bill Mceachran on August 15th
    

    To disable the option for 'console login' you comment out the line 'ConsoleTTY' in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc

    Reply
88. dh on September 7th
    

    Thanks, I've been searching all over to find out how to login to remote desktops from kdm. hours later I come across your site and I can actually do what I want.

    Thanks.

    BTW I also agree that there are many areas that kde has lost its way intuitively speaking. But I'm glad to see that it is almost usable now (4.3)

    KDM is just one of those places but since it is the first thing you see as a new user it has to make a good impression

    Reply
89. Qml to Kdm! Presto! | Enrico Ros on December 24th
    

    [...] “The first thing you'll notice about the new KDE 4 is it's old login manager” – as David Vignoni says in his controversial blog entry, [...]

90. KDE 4.x discussion thread - Page 4 - Open Source and Linux | TechEnclave on December 26th
    

    [...] KDE 4.x discussion thread Check out this blog post: Few things about kdm that do not make much sense to me | David Vignoni Visual Designer Blog Archive So one of the devs responded: QML to KDM! Presto!! | Enrico Ros Some awesome videos of QML [...]

91. liuxq on February 7th
    

    Could you just say your name (and profile) to your computer, and it log you in?

    Reply